Hard Crackers reached out to NDLON after we had read, in a New York Times article, about the organization’s involvement in the protests after the death of Roberto Carlos Montoya, a day laborer who had been waiting for work outside a Home Depot in Los Angeles. We interviewed Palmira Figueroa who is NDLON’s Communications Director.
John: Do you have any questions about who I am, why we’re doing this, or anything like that?
Palmira: If you could just explain, really fast again, what is this for?
John: I’m a member of the Editorial Committee of Hard Crackers which had begun primarily as a print journal. When the pandemic came along, it knocked out the print issue, because we couldn’t distribute it; so, for the last number of years, we’ve mostly been online.
We recently published an editorial about the current assaults against immigrant workers, trying to capture what we thought was going on, and we extended an invitation to people to tell us what was going on in their neck of the woods. So far, we did an interview of Silky Shah of the Detention Watch Network. And then, because I read about the man who was run over by traffic after having been chased from the Home Depot, I came across your organization. Someone was quoted in the news article, and I looked it up and it seemed to me really right up our alley in terms of things we’d like to know more about, and hopefully that our readers would as well.
I think that our readers are mostly activists of one kind or another. Hard Crackers is subtitled, Chronicles of Everyday Life, because what we’ve tried to emphasize are the stories about what you might consider regular, ordinary people are doing. We did a lot of that during the pandemic. We covered things going on in the prisons. We covered things going on in hospitals and in clinics, and we tried to understand the kind of terrible challenges that people were facing, as well as to capture their resilience, their ability to not give up. And I think that would apply now to this current terrible assault. As you know, there are terrible attacks happening, no doubt about it. On the other hand, there is evidence almost everywhere I look, of signs of people doing things that are quite amazing–people stepping up, standing between individuals being threatened and the ICE agents and showing up at courts. That’s kind of what we’re up to. Our plan would be after we have this short interview to get a transcript of it from Zoom. And then I have to do some cleaning up work. Once I have that done, I will send it to you. Before it goes anywhere, you’re going to get a chance to look at it and say, all right, this is what I said, and that’s fine, let’s go with it. Soon after that, we’ll post it on our webpage. If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.
Palmira: Yeah, no worries. No, we can go ahead. I was the one quoted in The New York Times. I’ve been in contact with the family since the beginning,
John: Could you tell us a little bit about yourself? Personally, but also about the organization, the National Day Laborers Organizing Network, which I gather has been around for a while, it’s not new.
Palmira: We’ve been around for about 25 years, and the organization is a membership organization that works in the intersection of immigration and labor. We support and work, in organizing campaigns with day laborers around the country. We have about 70 member organizations, around the nation, and all of them, or most of them, are led by the day laborers.
We also work on issues of inequality and, support for labor rights. And I am an immigrant myself. I was born, and raised in Mexico City, and now being here in the US for 23 years working in immigration justice. I am a communications major and I did a lot of development in the past–fundraising work for nonprofits, because it’s so needed. And now, I’m the communications director for this organization during these really hard times.
John: Indeed. I knew that it was going to be bad times coming, but I don’t think I ever imagined it would be this bad. So, what are the things that you think are most important for NDLON to direct your attention to, and for others perhaps, to direct their attention to as well?
Palmira: Right now, about this case in specific?
John: No, in general, about the attacks on immigrants. You pick, it’s up to you, it’s wide open.
Palmira: Oh my, there’s so much. I think that one of the main things that we are putting our attention on is how violent and specific is the focus on deliverers and on, as we call it, the informal economy in this country. And how easy of a target our workers have become, because they are the most vulnerable. They are out there in corners, or outside the Home Depots or Lowe’s all over the nation, and just the fact that the government is sending these masked men or people without an ID, not really showing any relationship to the government, but able and willing to just tackle people, chase them, and grab them just because of the way they look, or the language they speak, or the way they are standing around because they know who they are. So, profiling them, right? All over the nation.
Around that specific situation, the way we work and that we have worked for over 20 years, is we get the facts, we do some studies, we understand the situation, and then we organize, with the voice of the workers in the forefront. So one of the things we’ve been doing is encouraging people to go meet the workers around their neighborhoods, to get acquainted with them. We created a new program called Adopt a Corner. This program is encouraging people to form groups around their neighborhoods, get together, go meet the workers right where they are, and try to encourage them to know their rights. We have all the materials for knowing the rights, and then we encourage them to form rapid response groups where people are either patrolling or going to the places where ICE could come and be able to support the workers with a plan if that happens, when that happens.
That is the first time, actually, in our history that we’re working with non-vulnerable people, so the people that are joining Adopt a Corner are mostly white or non-vulnerable immigrants or people of color that have documents. And it’s been really wonderful to see that a lot of people want to step up because they’re seeing the injustice happening every day against these innocent people. They’re not criminals. I think the numbers are pretty clear, right, in the papers, and a lot of people have been doing these investigations which find over 70% of people that have been detained have no criminal history at all. And as we know, or hopefully most of us know, crossing a border is not a crime. And, and even though the word illegal has been used for so long, we definitely don’t consider anyone being against the law, because they’re living, working, raising a family, going to school. Those are the principles that we’re working on. Everyone that crosses the border has human rights and brings them with them.
And that’s not been respected in this country. So, another thing we did, aside from the Adopt a Corner campaign, is we are a part of the lawsuit for the restriction order against the government because of racial profiling of people in LA. We’re still waiting for the Supreme Court to come out with a decision about that. We’re working with UCLA and about 6 other nonprofit organizations in the LA metro area for that. We are also one of the organizations working on Temporary Protected Status. We are part of the TPS Alliance. A lot of the staffers for the TPS Alliance, are hired through NDLON, because we want to support that program and that group of people as well. That has been under attack, too, and so, a lot of the work that has been done with a couple of lawsuits against Kristi Noem by the TPS Alliance is also part of our work.
Yeah, it’s really hard times where we just get busy and busy, and try to create more ways to protect, support, and especially, resist against this fascist government.
John: I should mention that if you go to our webpage, and I’ll send you a link, that in our store, we are selling a pamphlet called “Since When Has Working Been a Crime?” It was originally published probably 40 years ago, and revised and reissued early this year, and it echoes a very similar argument. It embraces the idea that workers, no matter their status, no matter anything, have this obligation to be in solidarity with other workers who are under attack. This is not just an act of good will. It may well be that, but it’s more than that as well, and I think there are some signs of that happening. Actually, I think I saw something about LA that some bus drivers were refusing to pick up ICE agents. They weren’t willing to transport them from one place to another.
This is a terrifying moment for some people, scary for all of us in some ways. How optimistic are you or your organization about the prospects of organizing a successful resistance. You may not feel like you have any choice. I mean, that’s my guess, but how would assess the moment in terms of that?
Palmira: Of optimism?
John: Yeah.
Palmira: Well, it comes in waves, I guess, for me as an individual. I wouldn’t be able to do this work if I wasn’t optimistic. I think being hopeful in times like this is almost a mandate. I think we have to, if we want to resist. I’ve had a few days that are really hard, to be honest, especially since the passing of Roberto Carlos Montoya, because I’ve been handling the relationship with the family. There are 4 daughters and 7 grandchildren that will never see him again because of that, so we want justice for them. Because we want to support them, we created a GoFundMe for them, and we are also supporting them in the hard process of sending the body down to Guatemala and all of that. It’s hard and it’s complicated for immigrants, especially when they either don’t speak the language or don’t have experience managing with the government. So, it’s been hard lately to keep the hope. But the hope comes from working with communities, and keep talking and keep moving, with them in their struggle. I am an immigrant, but I am a pretty lucky one. I came with a visa, and then I married a person with status, so I was able to, after a few years, get status here in this country. Even though I could be persecuted or chased right now, I don’t feel afraid.
But I work with people that are in fear all of the time. Their resilience and their strength and their happiness and joy really move me and keep me going. We have a saying in the organization (which is our narrative) that only the people save the people. “Solo el Pueblo, salvo el Pueblo.” That’s our mandate, that’s what we say to each other, that’s what our t-shirts are about. We have hats and stickers, and I really believe that. It’s only the people that will save the people, and that’s why I do this work. I do this work because I want to be around resilience and strength and joy, and that’s what immigrants bring to this country, so I’m… I’m happy doing the work, because I feel resilient with them.
John: Good answer. This is a little bit off on a different topic. How are people, as far as you know, in border towns being affected by the ICE raids and also by the larger patterns of immigration enforcement. Is it coming down hard on them? As hard as it is elsewhere, what are their experiences?
Palmira: I’m not completely sure about border towns. I have a co-worker in Arizona and we have a few member organizations down there. They have been hit in a kind of similar way as other cities, especially around the courts, when people are showing up to court and they get detained. It’s happened in New York areas a lot too, right? Even in Long Beach and other places.
It’s similar to that–chasing and tackling and huge raids where they take 20 people.
As far as I know, it’s mostly happening in LA. It has happened a couple times in other places, but not as much. But, talking about being positive, I am normally positive, in general, but I’m also someone that works with facts, and ICE, or not ICE, but DHS just got $165 billion in the budget. So I think those raids are coming everywhere. It is terrifying. it’s coming everywhere. And so, what we’re really trying to do is encourage people to step up. We are a non-violent peace movement, so we’re not telling people to go tackle guards or do the same things that they’re doing. We’re telling people to get to know their neighbors, know their names, know what their plan is in case there’s a raid, know that if a parent next to you in the school with your child is an immigrant, you can ask them, do you have a plan? Is there a plan for you and your children? Do you have someone that they will stay with if this happens? So encouraging people to step it up and be aware that, this is just gonna get bigger very soon.
John: Okay, that’s a sobering thought.
Palmira: Yeah.
John: I think you’ve hinted at this already. How are people who are in these vulnerable positions, mostly, how are they experiencing the raids? Does it appear like a lightning bolt? All of a sudden, their entire lives get messed up, disrupted, turned upside down, kids get separated from families. But I’m curious, what’s their emotional response to being under that terrible threat.
Palmira: Yeah, people are getting very impacted by this emotionally, psychologically, in the way they behave–especially those that get detained and suffer through the abuse in the detention system. We have seen a few of our cases being successful and bring people out on bond, which is really wonderful, but also it’s been an eye-opening experience for us, where people get out very traumatized and really, really affected. And of course, the children and the families are super affected too, right? In all the ways, both by the raids, but also just by the feeling of hate and violence against them, with no reason. And if anyone in this country didn’t know that this is a racist country that hates people of color, I think that these times are absolutely what needs to show everyone that everyone should be doing something about this, because it really is an epidemic, and it’s everywhere.
John: So, a question I wasn’t going to ask, but I’m inspired by the last thing you said. In comparison to other waves of assaults on immigrant workers like deportations of Mexican workers, is the hate, the level of hate and violence this time around qualitatively worse?
Palmira: Well, I don’t know. There have been other instances in the history of the U.S. when it’s been pretty bad, right? We know the stories. And it’s probably the same amount or very similar, hate and a racist attempt to get rid of the people that are here. But it feels pretty, pretty aggressive right now. I just was reading yesterday that a job fair in Texas, that ICE organized, had thousands and thousands of people applying to be an agent because they’re inspired by what they’re seeing in LA. If anyone is inspired by that, that has to be hate. I don’t really understand how in the world can someone be inspired by the horrifying things that they’re witnessing.
John: Okay, I’m gonna have a lot to think about after we finish talking. Are there any lessons from your organization’s previous organizing that you think are especially relevant now? Not just for you, but for all of us? I mean lessons that inform some of the things you talked about in terms of adopt a corner. Other things that you would add to that, what you’ve learned, so to speak, from the many years of involvement?
Palmira: I think that a lot of the ways we work are about being inspired, but also rooted in the resilience and joy and love that we bring to this country. Our organization works a lot in art and culture. We actually have a musical band that is a part of our organizing strategy. They play Latin American music, and we also have a mobile stage that goes around with us in LA for the marches and the vigils. One of the strategies we’ve been doing lately is, when there are workers adopted, we come in the evening, and we organize a vigil for them and their families. We think about them, we thank them for their labor and for what they bring to the world and to the country, and we sing and we dance.
So I think that especially when there’s marches where people are angry, or when the passion is coming out in an aggressive way, because people are angry or young, especially individuals, are afraid or angry that their parents or their grandparents are being taken away, I think that the joy in the music and the way we bring our way of seeing justice is being helpful to keep the peace, but especially to keep the community together and working together towards justice, but with peace and with love, bringing the love and the culture to the forefront, that is one of the things that keep me going.
John: A lot of the ICE kidnappings, abductions, whatever, have been framed through the lens of the absence of due process. We’re curious, what do you make of that? I mean, is that important? Is that going off in a diversionary way? I don’t know the answer, I’m not, prejudging it at all.
Palmira: Well, I’m not a lawyer, but I have worked in the immigration field for over 20 years. A lot of my coworkers are lawyers. I don’t think that due process really exists in this country, especially for immigration. If you do a very quick analysis of the last 30 or 40 years, and the ways the government has changed and impacted and diverted all of the different legislations around asylum like TPS and DACA. For the different countries, it’s always been done and decided for political gain. Or for, I would say, economical or strategic reasons for the country. And so, if due process really existed, we wouldn’t have to change the law every few months, sometimes every few years, depending on who’s in power and how the country, or even the wind is flowing. And so, that’s my answer. I don’t really believe in due process in this country for many years now. I don’t think that is something that exists. I just have to put an example. Kilmar Abrego Garcia is the plain example of what is due process. That person has not had due process at all, and he was sent with other 200 people to a hellhole. Where was his due process? He didn’t have one. He’s still in jail. Again, he had one day with his family. And then, again detained.
John: Is there anything you’d like to ask us? I mean, we talked a little bit at the beginning. Or have I kind of answered those questions earlier on?
Palmira: No, no, that’s it.
John: And one last question. Anything else you’d like to add that I didn’t think to ask about?
Palmira: No, not really. Every time I get interviewed now, I always say that if you are a person of privilege and you’re not doing anything about this, your rights are also being played with every day in this country, and you should care.
John: Okay.
Palmira: Thank you very much. This was worth waiting for.